The Return of the King

 

Ah, the Lord of the Rings trilogy is over. No more films that you can guarantee everyone has seen. No more sweeping shots of New Zealand. No more girls perving on Orlando in his cute blond wig. No more insanely long, slow and boring scenes between Elrond and Arwen. No more brilliantly executed fantasy battles. No more pointless slow motion shots. No more Gollum. And, sadly, no new and exciting trilogy adaptation to look forward to for December.

There’s a few categories that people tend to fall into when it comes to these films. The stickler books fan who judges every film by how much it diverges from the books. These sorts are unlikely to enjoy any adaptation, really, but luckily most of them died while watching the theatrical version of The Two Towers. The books fans who don’t remember every exact detail, but have their favourite bits that they look forward to in every film. This is probably my category. Orlando/Viggo/Elijah fans also seem quite prominent. And of course there are many more.

Return of the King probably won’t satisfy all of these people. There’s certainly too many divergences for the stickler to enjoy it. Even my deeply repressed stickler side was raging insanely when he realised that he wasn’t going to even see Saruman in this film, let alone see him get killed. I dread to think how he would have coped if he hadn’t been warned well in advance that ‘The Scouring of the Shire’ wasn’t going to occur in the film. The second decision was clearly justified — there’s about five endings to the films already in ‘Return’ without adding yet another really long one. The first is valid to a point — but frankly I can’t see why they ever cut Saruman’s end out of The Two Towers.

While I’m in this slightly negative territory, I’ll try to get it all out of my system. What’s so cool about slow motion that every single vaguely important moment had to be highlighted with it? The film runs to around three and a half hours, but this probably could have been cut down by at least 30 minutes if a few of these scenes had run in normal time. And would have been 20% less cheesy as a result. Sauron’s eye functioning as a big spotlight seemed rather dodgy, but I can’t think of a suitable replacement representation of his baleful gaze. Elijah Wood’s performance doesn’t really shift gears until the very end, which tends to envelop the whole audience in Frodo’s subsumed, soporific state. And several of the films’ verbal cliches surface again, such as “The something-or-other is over”. Perhaps all those scenes were filmed in the same week and they didn’t notice they’d written the same thing so many times.

Most glaringly to me, Aragorn seems to be missing some key scene where he completely and aggressively embraces his destiny and responsibility, rather than just having Elrond tell him to. Suddenly, he’s in cool armour and giving inspirational speeches, and it just seems a bit of a quick change. Indeed, despite the film being named after him, he seemed one of the least well served characters.

But then, for all these problems, there’s more than enough cool bits. The whole theatre in Banff cheered when Eowyn got potentially the coolest kill of the trilogy. Legolas’ trademarked ‘awesome stunt per film’ was also pretty impressive. Pippin and Merry of course stole every scene they were in — no more impressively than Billy Boyd’s mournful singing during Faramir’s charge. And I challenge anyone not to feel just a bit moved during the final bow to the hobbits.

Minas Tirith proved an impressive new setting as well, with both John Noble’s perfectly disgusting performance and amazing visuals. Sometimes these crazy tall cities take a bit of disbelief suspension in order to fully appreciate, but this one came across as reasonably convincing. Less convincing was the concept that Gondor folk were living in insanely inhospitable conditions on the tops of various mountains, always at the ready to light their rarely-used torches in cases of world-shattering danger. Stickler Tom would of course at this point like to point out that he really did like all the Gondor stuff in the book a lot, and he wanted it in the film, too, no matter how damn long it took. But we should probably ignore him.

It’s traditional to end a review with some kind of conclusion, but I find that I don’t really feel I’ve watched the whole film yet. The Lord of the Rings trilogy is over. The wait for the extended edition finale has begun…

55 Responses to “The Return of the King”

  1. How can a scene involving Liv Tyler be boring…and none of that Kate Beckingwhat stuff!

  2. Surely you’re not saying that you were riveted to the screen as Hugo and Liv said the same stuff four times in a row really slowly, and in English (for some odd reason)? I don’t care HOW low cut Liv’s dress was.

    Anyhow, you should see Jersey Girl when it comes out.

  3. It might have been more tolerable if Arwen wasn’t played by quite possibly the least interesting and least talented of any actress I can think of. I mean, come on. Its LIV TYLER, did we really actually think she was going to produce something GOOD? Just becuase she never has before.. I suppose one must live in optimism, yes, but we cant be SURPRISED then we she is crapola.

    In fairness those bits were often the only bits of character progression for Aragorn and any of his story and in that sense worth it. Hopefully he will get more story/screen time in the extended edition.

  4. I thought she was good in Empire Records, and in Inventing the Abbots – not amazing granted but good enough. What else has she been in? Oh right, Stealing Beauty and Armageddon. Look it wasn’t her fault those movies were crap.

    Her part in LotR was goign to be pretty lame no matter what she did. I smell a personal feud. Tell us, why do you hate her so? Saying she is the least talented actor you know is a bit harsh. I thought the same thing about Keanu Reeves until I saw the Matrix – and he passed in that. He knows kung fu, you know.

  5. OK, firstly Shannon, my Father is reading this, you may wish to avoid him from now on… :)

    I heard she was fantastic in Stealing Beauty, from a reliable source. I think she’s very talented – but some bad decisions were made in LOTR, by her or by directors, or both…

    Drew Barrymore ranks WAAAAAY below Liv…

  6. Oooh goody, I got a rise out of someone.

    I don’t have a personal vendetta, I just happen to think she is talentless. As a person, she has very distinctive charactersistics- the way she speaks the way she moves that funny sideways lip thing she does pronouncing some syllables. So far as I can tell, the principles of naturalistic acting are to become a character and to an extent adopt new characteristics or emotions or whatever so you in some way transform. There has to be some slight difference between each performance, is what I’m saying. Liv Tyler is Liv Tyler every time. As Arwen she is just Liv Tyler in a wig with cute ears and having fun saying elvish lines, I find it really hard to connect with her as Arwen rather than Liv.

    Now I sound like one of those performing arts students I have such a distaste for.. Oh dear.

  7. Your argument seems to assume that your definition of ‘naturalistic’ acting is the only and perfect kind of acting talent. I disagree personally, and think there’s a lot of scope for actors who bring a lot of themselves to roles rather than absorb completely a different character. Is Woody Allen talentless? Actually I suppose you might think yes…

  8. Yes, Jackson and I were discussing this yesterday, and you’re right there are a lot of believable performances by actors who are in essence just being themselves, Owen Wilson was used as an example of someone the same in every film if I recall. I dont know what it is about Liv Tyler, though. Just for some silly reason I always see Liv and not the character she is playing. It was especially hard in LoTR to see her as an elf, thats all I was saying.

  9. Jackson….Shannon… How far you have fallen in my estimations! Wait till you’re 40 and watch Stealing Beauty again – Jackson, although admittedly Jeremy Irons has the best performance, and I admit – Shannon – she was more perfectly cast in that movie rather than acting brilliantly.

  10. Okay, I actually enjoyed Stealing Beauty, but I’m convinced in hindsight it was for the wrong reasons. I did see it when I was in year 9 or 10 and after all it is about a girl losing her virginity. But there were definitely some good eccentric characters, I just felt not much happened in the end. I suppose that wasn’t the point of it.

    But you’ve got to give me that Armageddon was pretty average.

  11. Armageddon very average. Very very average. Still, animal bikkies on Liv Tyler’s naked tummy…

  12. Incidentally Tom – could we have more than just the two most recent comments on the main site? It works if there was a forum to go to, but as it stands I could see comments getting lost because people don’t think to look at an old review. I could have posted a new Angel comment, but because I’ve posted here and also on the Matrix it would have been bumped. But I’m sure you get my point.

  13. I’ve been thinking that myself actually. Would three or four recent comments be enough? Or perhaps I should just have a link to a page that has all commented reviews listed in order of posting, and by who.

  14. I vote for 4 on the main page, plus a page listing all comments, cos now that we are actually commenting, it could get confusing if you wanted to find a previous stream. But anyway

  15. Hooray!! I speak and things just magically appear..Thanks Tom =)

  16. Either everyone has shot through to Queensland for winter, or are camped out by the letterbox awaiting the ROTK DVD. Query – is it worth buying the Return of the King on DVD now or waiting until August/September for the extended version.

    Or are you addicts like me who are doing both?

    Seeking advice…..

  17. Rent it now to satisfy the craving, and spend your money on the extended edition.

  18. I’m an addict but also a cheapskate. Besides, I’m pinning all my hopes on the Extended Edition being cooler, I don’t want to see the disappointing RotK theatrical again.

  19. Yes, Wise words! I am hoping that the extended version sees Aragorn gagg when presented with the pointy-eared one and to then drag Eowyn off to the Houses of the Healing for some serious royal treatment. And maybe Gollum will come back sporting a few band-aids and say he’s very sorry for having been a pest, but that he meant well and then establish a life-long friendship with Sam! How do you like my chances?

  20. I’m sorry, but I’m getting that you guys didn’t like RotK. Er.. WHY?!! It was COOL!!!!

  21. Why didn’t I like Return of the King… hmmm… I should write a review explaining…

    I believe one of my big wishes – Aragorn’s scene with the Palantir – will be in it, giving his character a bit more focus. I’m not so sure about your chances, Neil – the Eowyn/Arwen rivalry might have some cause for argument, but surely there’s no-one out there who thinks Gollum better looking than Rosie Cotton.

  22. Fine point Thomas!. I reckon Rosie Cotton is the ‘bees knees’ and I would cheerfully drag off Rosie and leave Gollum to those who prefer slightly less flesh on their partners….(even be it seriously BBQ’d!)

    Why don’t you write a review Tom!

    Great to see you at the Prom – do you think they could have filmed the gig at Wilsons Prom rather than “Neuw Zulleuund”? We would have thus been spared the torture of our language and the imposition of Kiwi ‘vowell cancer’…….The palantir scene was very underdone in my view and I hope to see this remedied in the extended version. Also Faramir and Eowyn’s unrequited passion… Best Wishes,Neil.

  23. Dear Shannon,

    I agree with you that the movie was very, very good and I love it to death. I guess I just came in here on the rear end of a mysogenystic exchange about the merits and otherwise of the female stars. That said, I felt that ROTK was more fractured than the other 2 and that we are in for some really good ‘surprises’ when the EV is released. I look forward to eg;

    • Some dialogue with Saruman.
    • The Houses of the Healing with Faramir and Eowyn falling in love.On the other side of the ledger, I loathe the scene in which Frodo ‘sacks’ Sam for stealing the Lembas. Tolkien quite simply never wrote this. I also miss the “Scouring of the Shire” in the book and the crew going home to a hellish mess in the Shire.But Still a masterpiece all round as long as one doesn’t mistake the book for he film or vice versa.The DVD arrived today, so I have had a fresh blast of ROTK, having put up with a very bad Chinese copy for 4 months…Best Wishes,

    Neil

  24. Had a great time at the Prom, we must go again some time… It would’ve been wonderful for LotR, though I fear they wouldn’t have had quite enough locations… Would they really want huge film crews there anyway?

    I also didn’t hate Return of the King. Just rather underwhelming. And also, having seen two films already filmed exactly the same way, rather stale. I do as usual look forward to the extended edition for a good movie night. WITH PIZZA. I can’t stress that last part enough.

    Also – I need to implement some system to make pages of 25 reviews more easily navigable. Maybe splitting them across multiple pages…

  25. Expect a review about why RotK is so great … at some point.

    The short versions have been released as a box set but I’m holding out for the extended versions as a set.

  26. So am I. I havent bought the extended of the first two in the hope that they’ll be a big pretty box when the third comes out.

  27. ‘They’ll’ being ‘there’ll’, of course.

  28. I’m not particularly bothered about boxes, but if they put extra content on the big extended boxed set, I’ll be irritated and slightly stroppy.

  29. Not as irritated as you’ll be when I insist on a barbeque for our RotK night.

  30. You wouldn’t!

  31. I like barbeques… And our barbeque is about 3 metres from our rather cool telly. And it will be summery when the EE finally comes out. Excellent plan i say.

  32. So BBQ’a and pizza parties aside, what do you think the EV will incorporate? I was watching the movie yesterday and reckon I am right about Saruman and about Eowyn and Faramir making appearances. But the possibillities are numerous: Watch for the two vulture-like gargoyles at the entrance to the Towers of Cirith Ungol. In the book you will recall that they screamed and would not let Sam through to rescue Frodo, until he held aloft Galadriel’s star-light. I reckon they do the same as there is a big edit at this juncture.Yes Thomas, the Prom was unreal and I am into another visit any time. Really enjoyed your company, (and Paul and the fossil!)

  33. Dear Webbie,Please delete my last entry – sometimes I just can’t help myself when it comes to politics and this is not in keeping with the thread of the discussion. I promise to stick to the issue from now on! Best Wishes,

    Neil

  34. Why certainly Mr Neil :) I’ll email you back on the subject as it was fascinating if not strictly on topic.

    Regarding the EV – I just hope there was LOTS in Gondor as that was my favourite part of the book.

  35. I agree. Pippin is easily my favourite character in RotK – I’d love to see more of his story. I’m not holding out much hope however. I vaguely recall Denethor having a more gradual descent into madness, although I’m possibly wrong. However I do remember feeling sympathetic towards him in places, which I didn’t get in the film.

    We’ll see.

    P.S I’ve heard a rumour that there will be the Scouring of the Shire!!! I wish.

  36. I heard that the Scouring of the Shire will actually be released as a separate movie this christmas.http://www.LotR:SotSthemovie.com

    Denethor should have a slower descent into madness. In the movie it felt like they were running out of time. Less time could have been spent on Frodo and Sam and more on the other characters. (Note to self: expand this to review size.)

  37. I think you made that URL up. Especially since you can’t have colons in URLs, aside from the first one. (but I checked it anyhow)

    Denethor and Pippin – and Gandalf – could have much more attention lavished on them.

  38. Dear Folks,

    Andy and Jack, you are exactly correct about Denethor – he emerges as a very sad, but deluded character on my reading. His decline is subtle and takes several chapters. A very sad man with no hope..

    I have re-viewed the film a few times and there are numerous edits where stuff could be developed for the Extended Version, in no real order….

    • Houses of the Healing (Faramir and Eowyn).
    • Conversations between Saruman and the fellowship. The Palantir just ‘turned up’? What about “the Worm”? I think they all meet outside the rather damp Orthanc.
    • The way of the dead (Dimril Dale) seems truncated, NB already extended in my purchased version from my pirate copy!
    • Frodo and Gollum at the Cracks of Doom – I am sure there should be more dialogue here, (not lengthy, but Frodo’s words are not as they should have been). There are many edits.
    • Aragorn’s address to his subjects which is obviously cut short and looks like shocking acting.
    • Saruman on the way home?
    • The vulture gargoyles at the tower of Cirith Ungol will scream as Sam enters and he will need Galadrial’s light to get past them.Several more to come…..

    I am interested in your info Jack as I cannot see how the Scouring can now be done as they currently return to bliss, rather than mayhem and murder. I hope you are right and will check out the URL when my new firewall lets me!

    Also a few queries…

    • How come Sauron does not become invisible when wearing the ring?
    • How on Earth (Middle Earth) did Smeagol get into Kazad – Dum?
    • Why did Elrond not kill Isildur at Mt Doom, instead of being so self righteous?
    • Will Aragorn and Arwen’s son be elf or man?
    • Did not Aragorn show himself to Sauron when he seized the palantir from Pippin? As Tom raises in an earlier post, in the book he spoke with Sauron using the palantir, but not with smouldering hands bouncing around the room, and in his own good time. (Secret squirrel who wins the discussion, deal Tom?)

    (More to come).

    • Forgive my aging memory here, but did the film(s) show Denethor with HIS palantir?

    Finally, I am compiling my list of ‘bests’ and ‘worsts’ from the ROTK and the Trilogy ie;

    • Favourite actor.
    • Favourite actress.
    • Best scene ROTK. (maybe 2!)
    • Best scene Trilogy. ”
    • Best dialogue.
    • Worst of the above.
    • Finest scenery (x2).
    • Funniest scene.
    • Saddest scene.
    • Scariest scene.
    • Closest the plot comes to ruin, ie Sauron getting the Ring.

    Just a few thoughts for my next tedious bulletin, possibly tonight. Any more?

    Tom, have you read “Bored of the Rings”, a satire on the LOTR by National Lampoon? If not, remind me to whack it in the post. It is ‘ok’, but you would have done better.

    Best Wishes,

    Neil.

    PS. Thanks for being such a forgiving Webbie!

  39. Favourite actor. That would be either Viggo or possibly Karl Urban. Favourite actress. Well, not Liv. Who else was there? Cate. Miranda. I guess its a tie. Best scene ROTK. (maybe 2!) Can’t remember, been ages since I saw it. And only the once. I think it would be Pippin singing mournfully as the Gondorians go to them deaths. Best scene Trilogy. It’s possible to name one? Pah. Not true. I abstain. Best dialogue. Worst of the above. Worst dialogue some of the stuff between Aragorn and Arwen. Finest scenery (x2). In FotR I think it is, when they are crusing the anduin and they go past those big statue dudes… took my breath away. Lame, I know. Funniest scene. The soup. Saddest scene. Boromir died. When they thought Gandalf died. Something with Smeagol. Scariest scene. Shelob probably. Closest the plot comes to ruin, ie Sauron getting the Ring. Why does Aragorn go off that cliff? Frodo telling Sam to go home. Boo.

  40. OK, there’s clearly some highly screwy stuff going on with these comments. I’ll fix it.

    Tomorrow. It’s late. I may also reply to these interesting posts.

  41. Sadly there is no Scouring of the Shire – Peter Jackson has said that from the beginning. I was merely being bitter, sorry if I got your hopes up.

    Yet another scene which really needs to be in the EV is the confrontation between the Witch-King and Gandalf. Currently Gandalf just whacks a lot of orcs. Both these characters were key figures in the battle and this needs to be conveyed I think. Besides, I would LOVE to see Gandalf hold back the entire army at the gate.

    After dismally trying to phrase an explanation in my own words, I’ve pasted an excerpt the explains my Sauron doesn’t turn invisible among another things…

    “Invisibility is the first power a bearer of the One discovers, but what most discussions of the Ring overlook is that this is a side effect of the Ring’s power on mortals (and possibly some elves). The Ring confers invisibility on its bearer by shifting him into a spirit-world, or as Gandalf refers to it, the “wraith-world.” The spirit-world overlaps the physical world, and creatures in the spirit-world cannot be seen in the physical but do have a physical presence here. The Nazgul offer the best example. Through use of the Nine Rings they have slowly faded from the physical world and into the spirit-world, appearing invisible, save the gleam of their eyes and their black robes.”

    http://fan.theonering.net/writing/reviews/files/briesemeister_sauron.html

    Anyway I absolutely must go to bed now. I’ll reply to your post tomorrow Neil :)

    Jackson

  42. Ah, I’m so embarassed. My code for these pages was ever so slightly wrong. Each page had incremental length, so page 4 was going to keep on getting messages until it had 40… It’s all better now.

    On topic…

    Elrond not using force at Mt Doom does seem a bit amusing, especially when viewed out of context. But then, elves are the ultimate ‘make your own decisions’ ‘follow your own destiny’ sort of people, so it’d be rather unelvish to just leap up and attack him. Also, possibly the kind of borderline evil act that might then lead to him thinking – “Well, say, this ring actually matches my shiny armour quite nicely.”

    Denethor’s Palantir… A quick search seems to indicate that it wasn’t there – but it must have been filmed, as we can see on this handy dandy trading card.

    More replying to come from me too, until then I shall just continue to hope that Aragorn and Gandalf get vastly improved roles in the Extended Cut. November??? Not fair at all, not a bit of it.

  43. Dear Folks,

    Wow, you guys are good! Thanks for the posts re the Palantir (Tom), the scouring (don’t worry Jack, you are not alone in being pretty pissed about this omission), invisibility (makes sense), thoughts on best and worst (Shannon)and Elrond (Tom – Good theory, but doesn’t quite work for me as Elrond knows Isildur is every bit as dangerous as Sauron with the ring in his possession). All great stuff and very interesting.

    I have cut as much grass as I can before the rain moves in and am ready to bore you again…These are very much opinions and are not exhaustive, but here goes..

    • Favourite actor, Tough! A close call between Orlando Bloom (Legolas) and David Wenham (Faramir)
    • Favourite actress Miranda Otto, (by a street for mine!).
    • Best scene ROTK. (maybe 2!). Eowyn killing the Witch King. Also the scene under the Dimril Dale and its aftermath.
    • Best scene (Trilogy). Gollum and Smeagol or Pellenor Fields. The latter by sheer magnitude.
    • Best dialogue. ‘Gollum and Smeagol’ (sheer genius for mine) or
    • Most tedious dialogue. Entmoot, (so call me hasty!)
    • Finest scenery (x2). Agree with you Shannon, the River scenes above Rauros, (I have the statuettes of the giant kings on the shelf!) Also the Golden Palace (wide shot). The Eagle (“Gwaihir”? carrying Gandalf over the mountain from Isengard. I also loved the lighting of the beacons”
    • Funniest scene. “Don’t tell the Elf”. (Gimli at Helm’s Deep when Aragorn has to toss him). Also “Looks like meat’s back on the Menu boys!” (Night camp at Fanghorn – the orc dialogue)
    • Worst acting. Aragorn immediarely after his crowning takes some beating, but the scene is almost certainly incomplete.
    • Saddest scene. Gollum and Smeagol
    • Scariest scene. Gandalf at the Council of Elrond, reciting the runes on the Ring.
    • Closest the plot comes to ruin, ie Sauron getting the Ring. Maybe ‘A knife in the dark’ at the Watchtower. (Aragorn takes on 5 of the Nazgul, including the Witch King of Angmar and only one stabbing eventuates. They should have been able to kill the Hobbits, Aragorn and murdered Arwen for good measure). They should certainly have taken the ring.Faramir could so very easily taken the ring and had very little surety on which to make his judgement to release Frodo and Sam in my view. I think another edit happened here as it makes little sense otherwise.
    • Hero of the Film. For the whole film it is Sam for mine. For ROTK is Theoden.My real hero is JRR Tolkien who along with his friend CS Lewis are my great literary heroes. I plan to clock the next person who asks me “Which is better, the book or the film?” as I think comparisons are a waste of time in this regard…Best Wishes to all.Neil.

    PS. Go demons, (how about 18 Balrogs on the ‘G’?) against the witch king Eddie and his black and white wraiths..

  44. Afterthoughts…

    “Why does Aragorn go off that cliff? Frodo telling Sam to go home. Boo”. Yes, yes and yes!

    Add the excision of the “Scouring”, (I loathe sequels, but would have copped this one as would have many others..)

    Excellent points in my view. Utterly unnecessary and gratuitous departures from Tolkien’s meticulously engineered tome.

    When you have perfection, why stuff around with it??!

    I guess I am comparing after all..

    Best Wishes,

    Neil.

  45. OK, trying out this survey…

    Favourite actor: Ian McKellen/Sean BeanFavourite actress: Miranda OttoBest scenes in ROTK: The Witch King’s ass-whupping. Pippin’s song.Best scenes in the Trilogy: Frodo and Gandalf’s discussion on pity in FotR. And can I say ‘Fellowship v. Uruk-hai’ in FotR, and cover the whole bit from Aragorn’s sword salute to his sword sliding through the Uruk-hai commander? I’m restraining myself, I’d like to just say ‘Fellowship of the Ring’.Best Dialogue: The above mentioned discussion, probably coz they kept it reasonably close to the original, unlike most further intimate discussions.Worst Dialogue: Elrond and Arwen have a long boring conversation in Two Towers, where they repeat themselves at least once. This ties with Sam saying that “There’s good in this world Mr Frodo, and it’s worth fighting for”. Bleaurgh.Finest Scenery: The zoom-in to Gandalf’s fate at the start of tTT isn’t bad. Nor the sweeping shots of the lovely Golden Hall (with excellent music).Funniest scene: Anything with Merry and Pippin, especially the extended cut of them finding the food and weed outside Orthanc.Saddest scene: Post Gandalf’s death. Even I got the sniffles.Scariest scene: The creeping Shelob in RotK. I HATE spiders.I’m not sure about the last 1 or 2, I’ll need to give some thought to them…

  46. What’s this Jackson? No scouring of the shire? It’s just like Peter Jackson to go back on his word. That fat lazy director.

    Just some of my thoughts on Neil’s questions:I always thought as Sauron made the One Ring he is probably able to control the invisibility or is not affected by it. I presume that some of the other powerful characters like Gandalf would be able to control it too. The other possibility that Tom mentioned about those who dwell in the spirit world makes sense too.In the books it says that Smeagol entered through the same way he led Frodo and Sam. He was able to persuade Shelob not to eat him and he said that he would lure in someone else for Shelob to eat. A bit like the Three Billy Goats Gruff.Aragorn and Arwen’s children will be mostly human. I don’t think its specifically mentionted anyway. I’ll check in the appendix about it. There’s not much different between humans and elves except for the life span. Aragorn already has an exceptionally long life and so do his children but they won’t be immortal.

  47. Aragorn had aleady live about 4 human lifetimes when all this business started, hadn’t he? I though he was descended from that other faction of elves.. the ones that split and chose to be mortal and then.. erm.. oh it all gets muddled but yeah i think the combination of super-long-lived dad and immortal mum give kiddiwinks a fairly loooong life. What was that kid called again? I know it, dont tell me.. theo.. ara.. no.. arathorn is grandad.. erm….

  48. Aragorn is a man – granted from a long lived race of men, but still a man. Men and Elves were separate and distinct creations. Anyway so I’m fairly sure you made all that elf faction stuff up, but seeing as it’s been a while since I actually read anything about it, I’m quite happy to be corrected if you could provide a source :)

    And yes Neil I agree – Aragorn almost effortlessly repelling five Ringwraiths at Weathertop (or whatever) undermined them as threatening villains terribly. Well that and when one of them fled because Pippin through a rock. If Aragorn had given any indication that he feared them, and if they had been a little more competent it definitely would have given the first half of fellowship more tension.

    I remember reading it when I was in Grade 5 and being very scared of the riders. In the film they are obviously bored because they decided to have all those synchronous sword bits. I wonder if the witch-king choreagraphed it? :p That being said Fellowship will still probably be my favourite at the end of the day. Although I need to see RotK again.

  49. Appendix A. That pretty much covers it. But as you pointed out, I’m not quite right. Though for me to have some minimal level of understanding within a lord of the rings book conversation is only just short of a miracle, so I say I still deserve a HAZAAAH! for knowing anything at all. Took me a while to be able to post this, sorry.

  50. Off topic..

    Has anyone seen “Super Size Me”, the story of the guy who ate only Maccas for 30 days?

    Be interested in your views..

    More on ROTK soon.

    Best Wishes,

    Neil.

  51. Off Topic again and again in case I get hit by a tram!

    The Lord of the Rings and the H2G2 are very special – I have found another in this ilk and thought you may like to know. This time ther is no book and only a small number of people worldwide know of the masterpiece.

    Several years ago my partner (Brigette) dragged me kicking and screaming to a village on the Welsh Coast. Its name is Portmerion and it is famous for its pottery, but it is also famous for something other. Port Merion is a bizarre Italianate village, purpose built as a film set, including eg a life-size chess set. The film (in about 20 parts),is a mind-bending thriller called “The Prisoner”. The plot is that Patrick Mc Goohan, the hero resigns from the British Secret Service and is kidnapped to this village to find out why he resigned. He won’t tell and each episode is an elaborate plot to make him talk, bearing in mind that they can artificially construct his environment around him; they use drugs, change the date and create a completely synthetic environment. Every move he makes is monitored. Brrrr!It is a stunning, clever and even a masterful piece of work and I could not recommend it more highly.But be prepared to be disturbed!..

    I managed to get it via “CD Online”, but it is very rare and hard to get, costs circa $100 and features 7 DVDs.

    More on ROTK to come..

    Best wishes,

    Neil.

  52. Surely you could also get it quite easily here?

    I have heard of it but never seen it – I believe it was a big influence on aspects of the sci-fi series Babylon 5.

    We might almost need a general discussion board on grapefruit… :)

  53. Dear friends,

    Herewith a competition, for which Thomas will offer a very substantial prize! (I haven’t discussed this with him, but I am sure he will oblige….)

    How many times are the words, “ruffian” or “ruffians” used in Tolkien’s chapter (in ROTK), ‘The Scouring of the Shire’.

    The total is quite amazing.

    Best Wishes,

    Neil.

  54. Oh fine! Well, the prize is… the prize is…

    erm…

    A copy of Tolkien’s lesser known publication – ‘Unstarted Tales’. There’s not much to it but every collector should have it.

  55. Nice manoeuvre Tom!

    Speaking of Tolkien, I was reading last night and was taken by the majesty of his writing thus…

    “But the next day there came no dawn, and the Grey Company passed on into the darkness of the storm of Mordor and were lost to mortal sight; but the dead followed them.”

    And later…

    And there stood Meriadoc the hobbit in the midst of the slain, blinking like an owl in the daylight, for tears blinded him; and through a mist he looked on Eowyn’s fair head, as she lay and did not move; and he looked on the face of the king, fallen in the midst of his glory. For Snowmane in his agony had rolled away from him again; yet he was the bane of his master.”

    Even better in context – a true genius!

    Best wishes, Neil.